Apr 8, 2021

In the third episode of this series, Dan and Lee speak to Chanel Heeren, a Marketer from the Microsoft M&O group and they talk about the flip-sides of tech from the Marketing perspective.

Shownotes:

Chanel Heeren - https://au.linkedin.com/in/chanelheeren

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TRANSCRIPT For this episode of The AI in Education Podcast
Series: 4
Episode: 3

This transcript was auto-generated. If you spot any important errors, do feel free to email the podcast hosts for corrections.

Welcome to the AI education podcast. In this new series of the podcast, we're going to be looking at and connecting with interesting people and getting their views on AI. Today we super lucky to have Chanel Han from Microsoft who works as a marketer in our M& group and today I suppose we're going to the flip sides of tech from that marketing angle. So, welcome Chanel. Tell us about yourself.
Hi. Thanks for having me here today. I'm very excited to be on this podcast. Um,
yeah,
we're excited to have you.
Yeah, this is probably my first time speaking on a podcast, so very excited.
Um, so at the moment I'm a marketing coordinator for the education team. Um, I've been in marketing in the industry for about six years now. Um, and at Microsoft coming up to two years now. So enjoying the company, enjoying the team I'm in. It's very exciting work.
From your background, did you do marketing in like uni?
Yes. My first degree was a comm's communications degree and then I did a postgrad in marketing. So yeah, bit of um a mix there.
Did you kind of talk a lot about social media and and technology when you were on your course? Is it was it like the the start of the kind of social media with
I would say it was the start but I guess the subjects available at university at that time weren't focused heavily on social media. I don't think um it had taken off at that point. It was more around like marketing in terms of driving consumer awareness and looking at consumer behavior that type of thing as opposed to just focusing on social media. Um it was quite new at that stage.
Yeah I'm sure. And and it's moving at rapid pace and we'll have a we'll have a chat about that in a minute. But I suppose it's interesting times at the minute, isn't it? With with large tech versus government, you know, this small companies that compete on like a global stage with with ad monetization and like search optimization, SEO stuff and ads are king, I suppose. And it's meant that companies've been gathering that and harvesting that data and being able to monetize their companies with that data. that they collect in to supply to people marketing whether you're a small company or a large company.
It's really driven a a big oil pipe in terms of that data but also leading to media rights. Now we're having that conversation in Australia about can large companies and large tech companies
continue to give people news for free for example and and then Donald Trump talking about fake news. You know there's a it strikes me that I suppose that the current crossroads with the use of tech and the collection of data, right? So, so from your point of view
in marketing generally um and just for people listening and for myself, how do we utilize social media in marketing generally across the the planet, you know, across all kinds of companies?
Yeah, good question. I think social media is kind of a subset of marketing itself, which I guess at this point in our lives, social media is quite cost effective. for a company or a brand to use to actually penetrate the market. So, I think yeah, there's a lot of smaller businesses out there using social media as opposed to spending money on like an ad in a magazine or a billboard
where that's quite heavy.
So, I think yeah, brands are using social media to kind of tap into the algorithms on social media to target their target audience with specialized ads. and that sort of thing. So, I think it all it all is kind of interwebbed in some way, but it is Yeah, it's it's very interesting. I I do find it fascinating.
It is, isn't it? I know. It It's It's really interesting. And, you know, when we've been talking offline about kind of uh social media and things like that, I feel as if I'm a marketer. I think it's about personal brand as well. Every time I post on LinkedIn or on Twitter, I kind of tend to be thinking about what image I'm portraying. So, I suppose we're all marketers, right?
That's it. Yeah. I think this current climate as well, brands and companies are shifting away from a generalized marketing approach where they're just kind of casting a net out wide and now changing their approach to a more targeted and personalized experience for consumers. And I guess AI as well helps with that approach because it combines AI technology with marketing to target those consumers. So that that gives the consumers kind of an individual level or personalized experience.
Yeah. And and I suppose when you think about Netflix or Amazon and things like that, there's there's this blur, isn't there? Cuz you know, I sit there and think, yeah, I don't mind Netflix knowing what I like watching because it's helpful on a Friday night to give me ideas on you know this this is something else you might want to watch in a similar genre but then sometimes every you know when when you're looking for things on Facebook marketplace for example and then you get ads around that or you're on Amazon um and you shopping for things sometimes we kind of pick and choose don't we think oh well I really like it in that area but it feels a bit spooky in another area so so like we beggars can't be choosers in some cases I feel as if as a consumer I'm uh I'm a little bit stuck.
Yeah, I um have the same thing happen to me. I use Instagram a little bit offline um after work most days and I I saw recently I was looking at a homeares brand on Instagram and then maybe the following day I had a bunch of ads pop up in my feed based on this homeware brand that I was looking at showing me other brands of homeware products like vasees showcases and that sort of thing. So
yeah, I was Yeah. bombarded with these ads that were like you would like this pillowcase have a look at this one.
Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. And and in terms of a marketing point of view, the other interesting thing fact that these these platforms are becoming more and more popular. New platforms are appearing regularly. So, you know, over the last 18 months or so, we've seen the um emergence of Tik Tok. How to how do you manage that from a marketing perspective? There's there's a lot of platforms out there and I suppose you have to be on all of them. or at least keeping an eye out for all of them to see where the next where the trends are going.
Exactly. I think there's new social media platforms popping up so quickly, it's hard to look at holistically how we could utilize that platform to market.
Um, Tik Tok is one that I don't use as of yet. I'm still quite new, so I really don't know how I could um incorporate that into our marketing campaigns. But yeah, it's really popular. at the moment.
I know, isn't it? I suppose what it's where the people are. Well, not that not necessarily that particular platform, but it's knowing where the people are and the demographic that that you want to reach or any company wants to reach, I suppose, is always tricky. You you've got some tips. I remember when we spoke recently, you've got some tips around the way you manage your social media on your on your device. Do you want to share some of those with me? Because it'll be good to get those down in this podcast so a I can implement them, but b we can share that with our listeners. Yes, I'm uh I'm very addicted to social media. So, I've had
um I've had to limit myself. So, I've put I think in um settings on my iPhone, I can go in and add time limits to my apps. So,
at the moment,
it is really like I need that kind of boundary. So, at the moment, I've put in one hour per day for Instagram and Facebook. So, once I reach that one hour limit, there's a notification that pops up that says you've reached your limit. So, I know like mentally have to just close that app.
And I've also set up my phone so I don't get any um any notifications that pop up such as like text messages or emails or Teams even. So, I just um yeah, I find it's kind of a wormhole if I open up an app.
I'll sit there and I start scrolling or I start reading something and then I realize I've spent an hour on my phone without even meaning to.
Yeah. And it's distraction, isn't it? It's like I I find that at night. So after I put the kids to bed and stuff and then I'll I'll check Facebook and then you can fall into that kind of like rabbit hole of like like you know and and lots of stuff's interesting, but news trying to catch up on that is distractions, isn't it? I suppose notifications turning those off is a really really good idea. I know um uh some of our colleagues uh some of my friends as well delete um delete some of the apps or move the apps to uh a different screen on their phone or in a separate folder when they're on holidays and uh you know move emails to you know if you get a CC on an email you know uh put that in a separate folder. So there's lots of rules and things you can do to help your social media like gosh I I struggle with it a lot as well. I'm on Twitter quite a bit. So yourself, how do you feel in marketing? Um the personalization of data is really important but then also the collection of data is a tricky issue I suppose ethically what's your thoughts on that generally that balance
um I do see from an external point of view this is just my perspective I see
there are positives and negatives to
um collecting data and utilizing that data for brands and businesses to kind of leverage I do see the positives and negatives from all sides. So,
it is it's a yeah, it's a very gray topic.
Um,
well, I know that's and that's the question is a bit loaded as well because there's no really right or wrong answer to it really, I suppose, you know. Um, but it's interesting to hear your thoughts from a marketing point of view there, you know, because
yeah, it's a field.
Yeah, there's from a marketing point of view, there is obviously the positives and the negatives, but also I I put myself in the consumer's shoes and I'm like, I really don't want a brand to know my details and know about my spending habits and behavior online to kind of take advantage of that as well. I do see that side. So, it is like
yeah, just very just tread carefully, I would say.
Yeah, good good advice. And I I think that's it is like my general feeling is that things are going to happen in the next 18 months. You know, there's there's several things happening in the news currently. Whenever you're listening to this podcast, it could be 10 years later, but currently uh across the world, you've got the Australian government pushing some media companies to pay news companies to drive more of the traditional media through technology, you know, to get get onto their platforms. And then we've also got the issue of the direct comp competition at the minute between Apple and Facebook in the news where you know it's also like a self thing you know Facebook are as successful as they are because they're available on iPhone is successful as they are because they got Facebook on it. They're coming to a bit of a clash of business models there at the minute with Apple now saying well Facebook should you be collecting all this data we're going to tell all the users they're collecting that data and make it more obvious and and make sure that people can opt out. uh and Facebook getting a bit grumpy about that. So that'll be an interesting one. So I feel as if
there will be a little bit more I don't know mediation around this area in the next couple of years because I think it is starting to people are starting to feel as if uh some big tech media companies are getting a little bit too big for their boots maybe.
Yeah, I also see like the the OPSE side of it as well. So
what does that mean? Sorry, acronyms. Oh, it's like operational security. I think um
the it's just having your your personal information available to people. So just put in measures around like don't store your passwords on your phone in the case of I don't know hackers or something. That's a completely separate topic to what we're talking about.
Yeah, it's true though, isn't it? Because it all it does all connect together and and I think people share a lot of information when we look in social media. especially and again that's an entirely huge podcast on its own but Microsoft and other companies have done a lot around social media and addiction and social media and kids and there's a a blanket thing about you got to be a certain age to be on things like Tik Tok but but those companies often hide behind that and say well if you're if you're under 16 you shouldn't be on some of these platforms but
we know that kids find their way onto those platforms and use those platforms to connect um so it's It's always I think it was um the Justint Ardun came up with something after the attacks in New Zealand when they went to the Paris piece of court I think it was called and and she kind of came up with some draft legislation around social media companies you know not just being a platform but actually there's this balancing act between should platforms be liable for things that the people and content that people put on there after that horrific uh shooting in Christ Church, you know, when when it was live streamed on Facebook, it it made people sit up and say, well, yes, there is a responsibility. Platforms do have a responsibility to to take down uh and police more effectively some of the social media sites. So, it's, you know, is there's an entire podcast on that, but it's really interesting the way that kind of connects through. Another question I'd like to um ask you is about, you know, as a as a female in technology, have you observations recently I I suppose you're in marketing area in technology, so that might be female dominated in some some aspects as well. But as a female in in tech, what what are your thoughts? How how are things how are things at the minute? What's your litmus test of of technology and and uh females in technology?
Yeah, interesting. I do find um like you said in marketing specifically, there is it's quite femaleled and The team I do work in is mostly females.
But in terms of just the tech industries as a whole, I find just looking on the outside in, I find diversity a big issue, not just in marketing as well. It's all aspects of the business such as like engineering and product development and STEM jobs. So I think I'm not sure of the percentage, but there is a small percentage of women globally working in tech. despite the number of jobs available in these types of roles like STEM roles and that sort of thing.
So not only with gender, it's it comes to like the gender gap, the pay gap, uh career progression gap. Yeah, it's widely known I think that women are considered a minority in technology. But I do find
I do find there are small changes and not even small changes but kind of big steps taken to change that that issue. Um so at the moment I know Microsoft has partnered with uh Girl Geek Academy.
Oh yeah, I saw that recently. That's fantastic. Yeah.
Yeah. So um based on this partnership, we found that only 17% of Australian STEM university graduates are women.
Wow.
Which obviously is a knock-on effect in the tech industry. history.
So, I think this um partnership is is really interesting because we're launching a very a series of very interesting um technical workshops to help target years 7 to 10 women in schools.
Okay.
So, that gives the opportunity to learn um cloud and AI and that
helps them yeah choose subjects for university.
Yeah, that's so good. Um yeah, I saw some those workshops and there's all kinds of things in there, isn't there? From coding to gamedev to 3D to drones and loads of emerging tech. It's fantastic what Girlge Geek Academy are doing. Really, really good.
Yeah. And it's not just that um that partnership. I know Microsoft has a bunch of other partnerships like women in the workplace and other councils as well internally that um help drive diversity in the workplace. So yeah, it's quite um in more of these councils and workshops is just going to help change the future.
Yeah, I hope so. When we looking at the future of AI and marketing, where do you see that going to kind of end out this podcast, I suppose? Where where where do you see the future of AI and marketing?
Oh god, that is a can of worms question there.
Yeah, right at the end. Hey,
I see obviously more stepping away from traditional media and AI is going to become more invested in our lives to some extent.
Yeah.
Watch the space. I guess that's a hard question to answer.
It is, isn't it? Yeah. Sorry to throw that way at the end, but thank you so much, Nell, for spending time talking to us in the podcast today. It's great to hear from the marketing side where things are have kind of gone um so rapidly and just getting your view on some of the female tech issues as well has been fant Fantastic. So, thank you so much for your time and uh good luck and make the future.
Thanks so much for having me. This was really awesome.