Aug 5, 2020
Time to hear what the next generation of our workforce is thinking and experiencing of AI in their lives. Hear from Michael and Olivia, students in Uni today embarking on technology focused course. What does AI mean to them? How do they use AI today? What is their perspectives on an AI led future?
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TRANSCRIPT For this episode of The AI in Education Podcast
Series: 3
Episode: 7
This transcript was auto-generated. If you spot any important errors, do feel free to email the podcast hosts for corrections.
Welcome to the AI podcast. How are you, Lee?
I'm good, Dan. Good to be back on the mics again.
It sure is. I'm really looking forward to this uh week's episode.
You know, in the past, I think just to remind our kind of
listenership that we've actually interviewed a lot of people from
industry and we're going to bring a different flavor to that today.
Right.
Absolutely.
When when we look back at the other interviews we've done, just to
give everybody a bit of a idea, we've looked at the different
industries and we've looked at different kind of areas of
technology from our partner ecosystem to Microsoft itself to people
using the technology and people with the ideas. So for example,
we've spoken to Nicole who is a government lead and national
security lead for Microsoft Australia and she talked about the
police and the way the police and the governments are using
technology and the security concerns around some of that
technology. We talked to Dr. Nick Woods about the health industry
and how the artificial intelligence is supporting with the health
industry. We spoke to David Kellerman who was a university uh
professor who's used AI and technology to improve outcomes for his
students at University of New South Wales. So that was really
interesting. And then to tail that one, we connected the dots by
speaking to a partner who actually implemented that solution for
David. Um, so the cloud collective team. Then we also some of the
other ones that stuck out to me were things like Aani from Maitland
Newcastle who did a data and AI strategy and brought a team
together around her data strategy which is really interesting. So
that was a good one to see the back behind the scenes I suppose of
a selfservice AI and BI solution and all that connected together.
And then one of the other interesting ones was is the startup lead
for Microsoft, Emily Rich. So, we would looked at and I know you
work a lot with these people, Lee, around um you know, new
companies and things like that. So, you know, we spoke to Emily
Rich around the startup industry.
Yeah. You know, when you read the list out there, Dan, it's it's
like it's a pretty it's a solid list of of a broad range of people
and you know, and a good diverse list of people from different
areas and different segments. Um you know, the one you missed out
of course was that amazing interview you did with the National
Technology Office of Microsoft Yeah, of course. Yeah,
of course. You know, of course I like that one. But you know what
strikes me, Dan, is is I look through that list and you know, we
all of the people we've talked to or you've talked to in the past
are people who are in the industry today, you know, and they're
people that are have probably moved forward with the industry as
it's evolved in this AI space. But you know what we were thinking
about is we sometimes forget there's a lot of young people today
entering the workforce and there's so much happening in the world
of IT today and And you know it is such a broad term when we think
about what information technology is or ICT or BIT business
information technology. So I thought it wouldn't it be interesting
if we asked the question to some of those younger people who are
just about to embark on their journey you know left school in that
journey into the into the world of work who are touching on
technology because AI has now become such an integral part of any
technology conversation it's almost impossible to avoid it. So So
Dan, let's we you know we should talk to some young people
should
I I think we should roll that tape. Dan,
hi Michael. How are you?
Good, thanks. How are you?
Yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for joining our podcast today. Um
you know, we we've just interviewed some really interesting people
on the cutting edge of it and technology and I've been watching
some really cool stuff of yours on uh YouTube recently around
quantum computing. So I thought it'd be great to just interview and
get your views on some of these uh topics that that are kind of in
the news at the minute. So, tell us a bit about yourself and what
you're currently doing.
Yeah, my name is Michael Nixon. I'm a year 12 high school student
from Wagaoga, New South Wales.
Not not really what you'd think of the the tech hub of the world,
but I've I've got a passion for computers and technology and more
specifically sharing that with other people. And when I was 14, I
created a kit called the amazing annoyatron which teaches children
to code through lots of different pranks.
It's so cool, isn't it? I I I was looking at it the other day and
it uses Arduino, right?
Yes, it uses Arduino.
That is so What What type of pranks do you do on it?
There's a lot of noise based ones. So, you know, the burglar alarm,
there's ticking clock, there's a a little cricket where it uses the
sounds along with light sensors. so that it chirps, but then when
you turn the light to go find it, you can't find it because it
turns off.
Now, that is a brilliant prank, isn't it? That's so good. And it
gets kids computing uh skills working as well at the same time,
which is awesome. So good. Um, so we put link some links to that in
the show notes as well, so people can go and have a look. It's
really good. Um, so when we look, you know, this podcast focus on
like AI, I suppose, as well. So what's your uh how do you feel
about AI in your life today? I think it's AI is a very interesting
topic because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about what it
is and how it works out there. I think people either think AI is
Siri, which is pretty rubbish, or they think it's some kind of evil
force come to wreak destruction on all of humanity.
Yeah.
So, what what's what how do you feel about that yourself?
Um, I think it's very much in its infancy. I think it's We're very
still limited by our computing capacity, which is even though it's
amazing compared with what it used to be, I don't think it's enough
for us to see the full potential of AI, which is why I'm so excited
about quantum computing.
I think there's a lot of untapped potential. You know, artificial
intelligence is just a bunch of mathematical algorithms done at
super speed. And I think once we get the computing power behind it,
We should be able to really find out what it can do.
Yeah. No, absolutely. And we did a we did an episode on quantum and
you know I was look it was quite apt because I saw you a video
after we did our episode on it. I was like wow we got to get this
guy on the show cuz it's really good. I'll put you a explainer
video. You did such a better job at at explaining quantum than than
myself and Lee work at Microsoft and we kind of working with it.
You did such a better job at explaining it and shorting his cat and
that is fantastic. Um and you're absolutely right. I Um, so how
have you learned about AI then? Have you learned through school or
do you have to learn yourself?
No, we don't really learn that kind of thing at school. However, I
do think what we do learn at school is quite helpful. Like um a lot
of kids wonder why you learn things like calculus at school, you
know, makes your brain hurt to the point where it wants to fall
off.
Yeah.
But you look at artificial intelligence, that's really the backbone
of it, you know. Um, multivariable calculus. That's what these
things run off. Probability. That's
that's what it works on. And I think it's been really cool for me
looking at artificial intelligence to find uses for what we're
doing in school. So I think that's that's definitely how it
connects to school for me.
Yeah, definitely. So So are you you generally are you scared or
excited by the prospect of AI yourself?
I think I'm excited. I don't think it's going to be something that
destroys us, at least certainly not yet. I think there's lots of
opportunity for us to think about how we're going to use it. It's a
great tool and I think really it's potential lies in people coming
up with creative ways to use it. You know, people thinking about
the different applications because I don't think we've seen, you
know, too many really solid ideas of how to use it. People are
still scratching their heads. I think mostly.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a fair point. And and so when you think of the
future and you think about solving any problem with AI, you know,
you've put your head to the really tricky one of getting kids into
coding. If you could solve any problem with AI in the future,
looking into the future with it, what would that be?
I think it would have to be something to do with poverty. I think
there's a lot of logist ical problems, those kinds of areas that I
think could be very well solved with AI, you know, problems like um
effective water transportation, even disease, coming up with
fantastic vaccines so that um you know, we can we can prevent
pandemics like this.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a good point, isn't it? Um so you hope for the
future over there. Is it is it thumbs up or thumbs down?
Definitely. Thumbs up. Bright future ahead.
That's fantastic.
Okay. Well, I'm here with uh oddly enough my niece Olivia. Uh and
I've asked her to share a little bit about herself and and what her
journey is in AI. So Olivia, let's start with you. Tell us a little
bit about yourself.
Yeah. So I'm 18 years old. I'm currently a first year university
student and I'm studying a Bachelor of Information Technology at
the University of Technology Sydney on a cooperative scholarship.
So next January I'll be starting a six-month internship with the
Australian Securities Investments Commission. So, I'm really
excited about that. I'm going to learn more about cyber security
hopefully. Um, outside of IT, I have other interests like sport. I
really love reading. I love learning about space exploration and
NASA recently. Um, I really started learning about it in year 9
probably when I chose a subject in school. So, I've been lucky
enough to learn programming languages such as Python, I've done
some Java, done some Linux. Um, yeah. So, I'm just just really
excited to keep learning about it in uni.
It's awesome. And you're doing so many cool stuff. I wish I'd done
most that stuff when I was your age as well. Um and it must be just
really interesting to be at uni starting in this time of co like is
are you finding that difficult at all?
I think it's definitely hard. I'm very lucky that I was able to
meet a lot of people from my course before university. So it makes
it a lot easier to reach out. But yeah, doing an IT course, most of
it's on a laptop anyway, so it's not too hard to adjust. But yeah,
I'm definitely missing seeing people face to face.
Yeah. No, for sure. None I don't doubt it. Um so look cool and a
lot of stuff you're doing is obviously tech and science related
with the programming and just general interest area. So given the
topic you know we're talking about AI and really the impact of AI
on on people like yourself and young people coming into the
workforce. So what is your what do you understand about AI today
and where do you see it in your life today?
Well it's definitely present everywhere I look. I mean the first
thing I did when I woke up today was unlock my phone. Obviously I
do that with Face ID which uses machine learning. Even little
things when I'm shown advertisements or my Google searches I'm
recommended friends when I go on social media and things like that.
That's all AI working behind the scenes. Um, same goes with music
apps such as things I use on an everyday basis. It's really really
fundamentally based on AI. Even services when I need I need help.
Um, I talk to chat box which really effectively mimic conversations
with real people and make customer service so much more efficient
for me as a user. But yeah, I also know it's doing a lot more than
just filtering my mail. I mean, I know It's really effective in
medical services and medical systems, for example, because it's
able to analyze data so efficiently. And I remember reading
somewhere that AI was just as capable as diagnosing tumors as
doctors in some occasions, which I think is amazing and amazing
progress. Um, but yeah, even walking down the street, I mean,
there's a chance I'm walking past a car that knows how to park
itself or drive itself. I mean, sometimes my dad can't parallel
park too well and he clicks a button and the car does it for him.
So yeah, I think definitely especially as a generation that's been
exposed to such rapidly evolving technology from a young age, it's
really easy to forget how reliant I am upon technology and how many
of these technologies do use AI every day.
That's awesome. And you you've obviously like thought a lot about
it. Um I better not let your dad hear this cuz have something to
say about his parking. Um but it's like the way you describe it
almost everything in your life in someone of your generation
is touched by AI. Like you said, your phone your computer, the way
you deal with service agents, rope, you know, chat bots, that kind
of stuff.
So, given that it's so pervasive in your life, have you do you find
that have you taken the time to learn much about AI and have you
kind of learned anything really interesting? I mean, you touched on
the medical stuff that you said.
Yeah. So, I think definitely most of my AI knowledge has just come
kind of come from like news articles, general interest, reading.
I've kind of do I don't really learn about it too much in
university yet. I know that one of the sub majors I might be
picking does go into it, so I might be choosing that. But yeah, I
remember it was only two or three years ago that I actually learned
that AI is an umbrella term. I thought AI was something completely
different to machine learning, for example, and all other different
subsets. So recently, I've been trying to read a little bit on deep
learning, which I think is really interesting. I think it's amazing
how they can create technology that is going to mimic the workings
of a human brain and kind of learn without human supervision. So I
think that's really exciting and then how that can then be applied
from little things like translating languages to robots and
self-driving cars, things like that. But yeah, I think most
recently when I the most recent thing I've learned about AI was in
university, we did a presentation and it was what new technologies
are being used for social good and another group did a presentation
on how AI is helping with the fight against CO 19.
So about how it's being used in medical systems, how it can analyze
data like I said before and find red flags simp symptoms, notify
healthcare workers at a drop of a hat, like identifying hotspots,
things as simple as contact tracing to predictive modeling. So,
it's all making a really, really big impact in our world today. But
yeah, I definitely remember being surprised by how many different
ways it is used in our life. I mean, before I really did research
on it, I kind of only thought, you know, robots, cars, I didn't
realize how many of our daily tasks do rely on AI. Yeah,
it's surprising. Yeah, you're right. And it's surprising how much
it's just become woven into the fabric of your life. Like you say,
the things that you just take for granted now that just happen and
it's an AI system. Um, and the other thing you said which is great
and I'm going to make you listen to the more of my podcasts in the
past because we've explored this before this issue that AI is such
a it doesn't mean anything. It's just this broad term and you
really got to start to pull it apart into machine learnings and
types of machine learning, supervised, unsupervised. So, it's
really good that you're starting to get that sense that it isn't
just a a scary black box thing. It's kind of a a useful tool when
applied in the right ways.
Definitely.
Um, but that kind of lights, you know, this issue we have often we
hear is that people are people are scared of what AI making
decisions on their behalf as much as they're excited by the
potential for medical industry and all those other things that are
happening. Have you kind of is there anything you particularly kind
of see and are you sort of worried about the potential what AI
could bring?
I think it's definitely natural to be a little bit nervous with
terms of AI especially because it is just developing so fast. I
know I have a friend and He's obsessed with these um Boston dynamic
robots. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if you've seen them.
They're these amazing robots that can do handstands, flip parkour.
There's one video in particular and this robot's trying to pick up
a wooden box and they just keep knocking it over with this wooden
pole and it just immediately gets back up. And he kind of has a
joke with me. He's like, "Oh, imagine then these things are going
to be sentient." You know, like we're in trouble. And you know, I
laugh about it, but it's always at the back of my mind whenever I'm
thinking about it. But um yeah, I think as well because I'm a
student, there's definitely a fear that one day AI will be able to
do the jobs that we're doing and replace us and further our own
knowledge better than we are already. So I think that's definitely
a thing. But I think overall definitely more excitement about
everything that can come out of AI. I mean there's so many ways
it's already bettering our current society. So as we continue to
involve it'll only get more efficient and obviously as an IT
student it'll open up so many career paths for other students like
me.
That's good that you see that future because that's the reality is
we hope is that AI it look it obviously impacts in some job areas
but it also changes the dynamics of entire industries where there
are jobs and things you could be doing in industries you might
never have thought of but I because AI is so valuable and then it
is a solid background to that you could find yourself in you know
anything medical construction anywhere
um and the Boston Dynamics one I've seen the video of that and kind
of sort of feel bad for the robot pushing the robot
but you know it doesn't it's a whole another topic I don't know if
you ever learn about this in uni which is
you know the ical elements of what AI means when you start to
relinquish some of the responsibilities we have as humans to robots
and then how do we treat those devices just cuz they are not human
but they were embibing them with humanlike sentiment.
Yeah, exactly.
It feels wrong that you should treat a robot that way. Yeah.
Yeah. It's it's a it's an interesting dilemma the whole ethics of
of AI separately.
Yeah. Especially with self-driving cars as well. I know one of the
activities we had to do for a subject was if there's a self-driving
car, who's it aiming to protect the pedestrian or the passenger in
the car.
So, I think there's a whole lot of ethical questioning that's going
to be unlocked. Can of worms, I guess.
Look, it is and and yeah, at this point, I spend a lot of time my
time thinking about, but it's
it's not an easy problem to solve. No doubt about it. So, so
thinking of problem solving then so looking at it from that
positive view that you have
looking forward like what are the kind of problems that you would
love to see us solving with AI and kind of you know where would you
like to get involved in perhaps?
Um I think that definitely something I would like to see is the
reduction of car accidents. I think especially because it's
something that we're kind of on the cusp of, but not really. I
mean, in the news, you see videos of the cars that can now stop by
themselves. Obviously, we already have cars that can park by
themselves. I think if we can improve and really sophisticate the
autonomous cars, I think that'd be a really, really great step
forward. I mean, I remember I was reading an article the other week
about a car they're theorizing that will be able to stop from a
passenger out of view. by communicating with traffic cameras.
So I think just taking new viewpoints on that could really really
reduce it. And then again with the medical information systems, I
mean people are saying that
AI could help them cure cancer and find vaccines and things like
that. So I think there's definitely a broad range of problems that
can be solved with AI in the future.
Yeah, it's great. I mean, well, healthcare is obviously a really
important one. And the car one, I like your example because it
shows that
you're thinking about it. We don't think about it from the
constraints of how we think about a car today, which is just the
car, how does that car interact with the systems around it, the
lights, the people and that maybe the devices that those people are
carrying are also signaling and helping the cars be safer. I think
it's it's amazing that you that you have that mind to think just in
that different way. That's awesome. Look, so last question for me
and then I'll let you get back to your day.
So, you know, with an AI view of the world, what's your hope for
the future? What's the world you want to grow up in?
I think definitely innovation is going to continue to be the most
important thing, especially in a field such as technology where
it's been been rapidly evolving. I mean, our first programmable
computer was only built in what 1940 was it?
Yeah.
So, it's we're not even on 100 years and we're already creating
such amazing systems and technology. I think in my lifetime if
sentient AI was created, I would definitely die happy. I think it's
something that we're maybe a little bit far from right now.
Well, Lee, that was fantastic. It's just incredible, isn't it, to
hear that their their clarity of thought on some of these things. I
was um Yeah, super super. We should do more of that. It's just
incredible to get that perspective.
Yeah. No, absolutely. And and that demographic, you know, that they
were kind of similar age, similar experiences, one just finishing
school, one already in uni. You know, it's it's interesting as well
to have male point of view and a female point of view as well, just
to kind of see if there were any differences there, you know,
within a sample size of two. It was uh really interesting to hear
their thoughts. What What did you think about Michael?
Oh, look, uh yeah, incredible story. Uh I don't think I want to be
around him because of his Arduino bank machine. That sounds very uh
very worrying. Um but you know there was a couple of things that
struck me but the first thing was you know I think he opened with
his commentary about the fact he's from Waga. You know it's from a
regional town and he's you know in his own words it's not a digital
hub but that doesn't stop you. And and it's good to see that you
know that young people in places that don't have to be in the big
cities to get connected to and have access to the kinds of
technologies we want them to. I think it's really good and that
that was a that was the first thing that that struck me. I mean he
said a lot of really amazing things. But um yeah, that was
interesting.
Yeah. And he was and he's really entrepreneurial, isn't he? And I
think that's some of the things that have jumped out. I think
students these days when when we came into this, I think I think we
were both thinking about well when I was 18. I certainly wasn't
entrepreneurial. Um I was just kind of going through the standard
classical way of learning and school. And I don't think I was
encouraged at that stage by school or by uni to think outside the
box. It was very much a filling of a vessel. rather than light in
the fire.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And and actually now you say that that
reminded me of something that he did say which was you know he if
he thought about you I think you asked him the question what do you
do you learn about AI at school and his response was no he doesn't
learn about AI at school yet he could connect the dots between
things that you do at school maths calculus to understand how they
apply to something as you know far away as AI and I I just don't
think I was ever thinking that clearly about the application of
learning in the real world. um at that point uh you know that fact
that he was on that did you hear that he was uh frustrated with the
limiting limits of computing capacity and and I thought to myself
God what would he have done if he was back when you and I were at
school and the computer the PDP11s and the gosh the terrible I
think we're on Apple Max first edition Apple when I got to uni
absolutely and and that's that's another thing that came out
through Olivia and Michael's conversations was this wasn't a
superficial discussion. We asked sensible questions that we'd ask
any anybody. Um, and they they really weren't superficial. They
thought about their answers and they were really um understanding
technology uh quite a lot which was really kind of eye opening for
me.
Yeah, definitely. And um I'm interested to get your thoughts uh on
my niece Olivia who
Oh, wow. I I know I've known her for a long time and that was
probably the longest conversation I've ever had with her, but it
was amazing to sh to listen hear that level of maturity from her.
What were your thoughts?
Absolutely. Well, you know, well, my my my final thought was when
when she was talking with sentient day and I had to quickly go into
my favorite search engine and find out what she was talking about
because you know you know she was yeah she was thinking about the
the real things which are close to everybody's heart at the minute
you know around that AI for social good and the fact that she was
exposed from a young age to technology and she was really cognizant
of how um much and how reliant her kind of age group and
demographic are with uh AI and technology and you know the way she
started talking and brought in about you know the contact tracing
ideas the predictive modeling all of the things that are woven into
the fabric of our lives you know it's it was really uh enlightening
to hear her thinking about that and hear the way that she's
tackling that in university and it was it was really interesting to
hear her positivity and the fact that she was really excited about
it and the fact that she thinks that um it's about bettering
society. Uh and when you asked her, I think about the problems
she'd solve with with AI. She was talking about reduction of car
accidents, curing cancer, finding vaccines, you know, they they're
big ticket items that say Microsoft where you're looking at at the
at the top level and other companies are and and and she's right on
the money there and she was like totally keen to kind of see how
this was going to uh really drive And I suppose when I'm comparing
the difference between Michael and Olivia, I think Michael was
really in touch with those kind of um uh technological advances
that were were holding us back and then Olivia with a university
lens on was also thinking about those kind of wider big problems
which she could solve which was fantastic.
Yeah. Know I I agree and I I was you know the the positivity
without a doubt and I think that's that's really for me was a a
light bulb moment in that there's just a natural assumption that
because there's so much negativity that we read about, you know,
the the the impact of AI on people's lives and jobs and livelihoods
and all these things that you think that's going to perpet per
perpetrate its way into young people's minds, but it doesn't. Her
positivity was there and and you know, when I yeah, I think at the
end when I asked her about the problem she'd solved, you know,
curing cancer, funny vaccines, I know these are things that a lot
of people think about, but the one that when she talked about the
car accidents one and I remember as she were talking about it and
and we were sort of chatting about it more more afterwards just
depth of thinking around how it might work. You know what there was
no there were no bounds to the thinking you know in the way that
you and I might have historically thought about what's possible
based on what we can see and observe
young people seem to be thinking about
the unobservable the what could what's possible.
Yes.
Uh which is a which is that positivity of well you know with this
tool what could I do and and that was fantastic. Really enjoyed
it.
Definitely. And and and I think you know that ethical concern came
up again you know and the fact that they're thinking just because
we can do things, we shouldn't have to do things. Uh so that was a
really interesting theme as well that came through and the
positivity like I I agree. Well, that was that was a really good
exercise to do for this podcast. I hope the listeners really
enjoyed it as well.
I don't know how we're going to top that, Dan. I mean, when you got
those two stars now, we're redundant now, aren't I?
I know. Yeah, they'll have to interview us. We don't in our old
age. Well, that was a brilliant episode, Lee. Thanks very much. I
really enjoyed that.
Thanks, Dan. See you next time.
Thanks.